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During the years of the George W. Bush administration a new modus operandi was forged for the GOP through both actions and (even on a couple of occasions) direct statements: "Facts are irrelevant." Since the 2008 election many of the loudest voices in the the GOP (and their media cheerleaders) have pursued that approach with gusto. Perhaps their greatest monument to that practice has been in characterizing the Affordable Care Act ("ACA" aka "Obamacare"). The result has been a confused citizenry that is uncertain whether lies, repeated after being dis-proven, must somehow be true. That can be seen in many of the recent man on the street interviews and polls that have gone viral – perhaps the most telling among them are the ones asking people the ignorance-revealing question if they like "the Affordable Care Act" better than "Obamacare".

LIES by callmesickgirl

It's hard to discuss the facts around issues like these without being labeled "politically biased"… and I fully admit my political views are usually liberal. But the saying that "reality has a liberal bias" seems to be more true with every passing day, I'm sad to say (really!). My own politics also means I have my own bones to pick with the ACA and its half-assed, market-based approach to the problem which continues to make our collective health a profit-based commodity. Many of the comments in my recent poll on "preferred approach to health care" illustrate just how much mis-information is flying around. So as a public service I'd like to point everyone to a few helpful links that clarify some of the chief factual distortions and outright lies that are muddying the waters of our recent national discussion around the ACA.

Caring for Dementia by carts

Please note I might try to chime in on a few of the comments, but there ain't no way in Hades I'm going to be able to engage in a discussion with everyone. My goal here is to try and find reliable and verifiable resources that are fact-based. It's a sad reality that, while the Internet affords us so many more news sources than we've known in the past, so much of that information is tainted or willfully misleading. So understanding all of the news we get requires more effort than ever as we have to do our own vetting. So I invite you to vet any of the claims in these listings on your own… just remember, finding an opposing view or statement is easy, but it doesn't always count as verifying your information. When in doubt you can always go to the source:

The Affordable Care Act, section-by-section: www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/…

OK, here's your quick resources for trying to make sense of some of the more contentious issues:

Politifact's List of the Top 16 Myths about the Health Care Law:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-met…

Media Matter's List of 15 Myths The Media Should Ignore During Obamacare Implementation:
mediamatters.org/research/2013…

Politifact's List of 10 Things Obamacare Supporters say that aren't Entirely True:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-met…

FactCheck.org's Obamacare Myths:
www.factcheck.org/2013/09/obam…

Some of you may be inclined to respond to these lists by killing the messenger (the media source). I ask you politely to refrain from that approach if you choose to comment and instead address the presented facts with your own supported fact-based challenges. To do otherwise is simply to avoid the issue all together.

Bottom line: I hope those of all political stripes that are confused by the swirl of "fact-like-info", truthiness, and spin on the ACA will get a clearer view of what it is and what it is not. But don't take my word for it... or these links. THINK! Do your homework and look at every voice with healthy skepticism tempered by reason.
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:icondana-redde:
dana-redde Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:salute:

Brave soul. I wasn't going to touch some of those idiotic comments with a ten foot pole.

The worst part is the media going along with the pusillanimous and false "well, if only the Democrats would give an inch!" narrative.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Professional General Artist
It's sad and frustrating that, in the court of public opinion, "truth" can be so malleable. Coming from a science background where "just making shit up" yields broken results, I find I keep beating my head against this problem... like it should do something. Like a lightbulb will go on over people's head when they suddenly see verifiable facts. But no... all it's really yielded is an increasingly bloodied head. And I'm left reeling, feeling like I'm in a work sinking into madness....

Madness scares me. It should scare everyone.... at least those with a shred of sanity left.

*sigh* My head hurts.
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:iconravens-eye-studio:
Ravens-Eye-Studio Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Excellent journal post! 
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Professional General Artist
Thanks! Sadly I'm not sure how much good it will do in the face of the mis-information storm... and all the mindless parrotting of said blather.
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:iconravens-eye-studio:
Ravens-Eye-Studio Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Yep... It's kinda the same thing I run into with people saying ___________ must be true because they saw it online. It's sad that people don't do more research and find out the truth (as much as can be found) for themselves. It seems that, now that information is so readily available on the internet, some people find it funny to supply untruths rather than just keep their mouths shut. 

And the parroting! My god!....

Yeah... I could really rant. But, I won't. 
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Professional General Artist
Well you'd be preaching to the choir anyway ;)  Yeah, the Internet provides more "news" than ever before... but the problem is that it's not all delivered with the same journalistic standards. There's lots of "designer news" out there - Right AND Left - designed to reinforce a pre-existing opinion. It's up to all "responsible" citizens to vet their news and to maintain a healthy skepticism... but so few do that.
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:iconravens-eye-studio:
Ravens-Eye-Studio Featured By Owner Oct 17, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Sadly, this is very true. 
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:iconmillenniumfalsehood:
MillenniumFalsehood Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
The only concern I've ever really had about the ACA is the cost. I would hope that it will be amortized over many years with as little impact as possible on me, which I am fairly certain that the lawmakers who created it have considered. But it still concerns me, naturally.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
Do you mean the cost of government subsidies and how they could effect taxes or are you talking about the cost of insurance premiums? One things obvious: if Congress delays or repeals the Medical Device Tax, it kicks out one of the legs that the law stands on and increases the probability that the ACA might demand more from the average citizen's pocket. You can't take the gas tank off a car and expect it to get too far.
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:iconmillenniumfalsehood:
MillenniumFalsehood Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013
Taxes, mostly. The law is supposed to cost several billion, IIRC. I'd like to know there's a plan in place to spread this cost over many decades like NASA does with its various missions. I'm pretty sure there is, but I'm still curious.

From what I've read, premiums are variable, but because the law doesn't force you to use the government plan, you can still use your insurance company if the premium is lower, so I'm not that worried about this end.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
I haven't looked at a detailed breakdown of how the plan supports itself and what the additional load is to the operating budget. I know some of the key theories to its methods of price containment. And I know that it will mean more expense from the federal coffers. But I haven't seen a good breakdown of all the numbers yet. I suspect we won't REALLY know the numbers, anyway, until after the law goes fully into effect in January. There are a number of variables. And it also depends on how much damage the GOP can inflict on those fiscal legs. It seems that's their new goal in attacking the law: to cripple it as much as possible as to increase its chances of failure. Delaying the medical device tax for two years sounds pretty benign until you understand the money void it leaves for establishing the ACA.
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:iconmillenniumfalsehood:
MillenniumFalsehood Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013
Yeah, we probably won't know anything until the law comes into effect.

I'm starting to think that the GOP is just jealous that they didn't think of this first.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
That last line is a joke, yes?

As someone once said (and I agree with, given what we've seen): "Republican's aren't really afraid Obamacare will fail, they're more afraid it'll succeed."
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:iconmillenniumfalsehood:
MillenniumFalsehood Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013
Halfway. From what I can tell, in theory, the law should increase competition and drive down prices, which honestly sounds like something the Republicans used to be known for insisting on: that capitalism is the superior method for economic stability (it's a lot more more complicated than that, but when you get right down to it the bill is just a way to force insurance companies to control their prices). So part of their hatred for it could very well be that they aren't the ones who thought of it first. And if it does succeed, they'll lose a major playing card they have, which is that (in their minds) Republicans are the only ones who truly understand our economy enough to save it. So I'm really only partway joking.

As childish as either side has acted over the last decade or so (locking the doors on the Republicans and changing the locks, making up easily-unverifiable lies about Obamacare to scare people), I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason for all this bickering was as petty as that.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2013  Professional General Artist
See, that's why I thought you were joking... because Republicans DID think of it first. The idea originally came out of a Republican think tank (the Heritage Foundation) in 1989. In the early 90's Republican leaders twice tried to present as an option in Congress. It's first major trial came when Republican governor, Mitt Romney, managed to put it in place in Massachusetts in 2006. Obama chose the model based on it's Republican roots, reasoning that he'd have an easier time getting this passed than the Public Option that so many Democrats - especially on the Left - favored. It was a centrist course... though you'd never know that now listening to Republicans talk of it. Even Romney got on the ACA bashing wagon during his campaign, saying "Sure I used that very model for Massachusetts. It was the right choice for that state... but not for the nation."

Ah, good ole Mr. Etchasketch....

www.forbes.com/sites/theapothe…
healthcarereform.procon.org/vi…
www.forbes.com/sites/theapothe…
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(1 Reply)
:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2013  Professional Writer
Been giving this Journal and comments some thought, and remebered how I could show an example of the Canadian health care system. Just need to read a Journal of mine from 2012:

drofdemonology.deviantart.com/…
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2013  Professional General Artist
Thanks for the contrast. Meanwhile we STILL have the best health care in the world that no one can afford ;p
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:iconharroldsheep:
harroldsheep Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Filmographer
HealthCare in Canada isn't perfect either (waits for certain procedures and treatments) but looking at the utter fustercluck happening down south, I can't stand in awe of how one faction of a political party is not just willing, but adamant at a level that borders on unrestrained suicidal glee, to torpedo not just their economy, but pretty well most of the planet's over, in no uncertain terms, butthurt.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
Yep.... it doesn't make much more sense when you're looking at it from the inside. It's scorched-earth-crazy any way ya slice it.
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:iconsteve-burg:
steve-burg Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Filmographer
The level of ignorance in the US at present is staggering, especially given the access to information now at the average person's fingertips. Primitive humans were only able to survive in a hostile world filled with danger because of their highly developed intelligence. In a way this remains true. People who make important decisions based on incorrect information - especially information that has been deliberately distorted - will suffer adverse consequences. Failure to learn from mistakes leads to more bad decisions, and it's a downward spiral.

To be honest, I'm afraid for all of us.
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:iconkittamaru:
Kittamaru Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013
Thank you! It pains me to see how much our country is allowed to push itself to the brink of ruin simply because the CITIZENS are either too stupid, too un-educated, or simply too LAZY to learn the truth of what is going on! 

As it stands, Federal positions (President, Congress, House, etc) are positions of prize... you get in, you win. You are set for LIFE. Between the pensions, the lifelong bodyguards and health care and other perks that come with it (not to mention the hefty sums of money thrown around you and sometimes AT you to win your favor)... its no WONDER people work to protect their own interests therein! It SHOULD be a position of servitude to the American People... but sadly, it isn't.
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:icontorinzece:
TorinZece Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013
I might suggest turning off FOX.
Just saying....
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:iconmillenniumfalsehood:
MillenniumFalsehood Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
Fox is certainly the worst offender, but the sad truth is they led the way into the entire news media conglomerate becoming political soapboxes for either party, and no "news commentator" these days can be trusted with the truth because emotionalism and sensationalism are the vogue. The days of factual reporting are sadly gone, with no hope of recovery, because the majority of Americans are either too ignorant or lazy to demand change.

If you want a real good look at how it started to change, the episode "We Interrupt This Program" from "From The Earth to the Moon" is a pretty good one.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
You can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make him drink....
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:icontorinzece:
TorinZece Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013
Its just mind blowing seeing the inaccuracy on that channel.
And they never correct themselves.  They get away with it due to the fact Fox News is not a news channel but a entertainment channel....
... that is false advertising, just by the name alone.
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:iconseeker-wolf:
Seeker-Wolf Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013
No hate...just want to know why, if this is such a great program, the President and his family will not be taking part in this great program?  Most of Congress already has....
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
*shrug* I for one don't think it's a "great" program, just an improvement over what we had. As for the president, well... he's got his own personal physician as perk with the job as every modern president has (and probably most first world leaders). That's something few of us could ever dream to have.... but then we don't walk around with nuclear codes, either ;)
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:iconpixel-slinger:
Pixel-Slinger Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Working in the healthcare industry and seeing the facts of the so called "affordable healthcare act" I can't agree with your naive assessment. 
First of all, both the Democrats and Republicans spin things their own way and damn the facts. It's a politician thing, not liberal or conservative. Second, the intent of Obamacare is perhaps laudable but the implementation is not going to work, ever. It assumes that it exists in a vacuum when it does not. It doesn't take into account the human factor on the supply side. It treats all providers as machines with no choice or stake in the matter.
What I would like to see is people discussing the issues without mudslinging like this. I tend to lean libertarian but I don't blindly follow a party in all things. I never have. It is ridiculous to demonize the "others" and act as though your party's shit doesn't stink. No party is right or wrong just because of who they are. That's what I'm hearing in all of the diatribes from people whether they are attacking or defending Obamacare.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
And please notice I've also included a list SPECIFICALLY poking holes in some of the distortions promoted by Obamacare backers. They just aren't quite as outrageous as the ones promoted by Obamacare opponents (stuff like "death panels", et al).
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
Er.... informational links are a "naive assessment"... or did you not actually read the whole blog? Incidentally I have no party affiliation.

You seem to be asserting that the Democrats are putting out as much misleading information as the GOP about the ACA. I challenge you to back that up with proof as it seems an obviously absurd assertion.

So what do you do in the healthcare industry? If you'd like to challenge the facts presented in the links, I welcome that. That's what this discussion is about.
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:iconpixel-slinger:
Pixel-Slinger Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I should know better than to say anything to political activists. You proved my point by showing that there are distortions coming from both sides. But your "non-partisan" opinion is that the lies from one side are far greater than that of the other side. Clearly, that depends on your stance on the issue, no? The thing that is funny is all these people pimping for ACA who swear they have no affiliation with the Democrats. Sure. 

This issue will not be decided by us arguing here. I stand by my statement that your assessment is naive, unless you also work in the healthcare industry and have a different experience than me and the other providers I work with. Posting political debate is pointless. I've found that arguing with partisan people is like arguing with religious believers. So I'll pass. I don't have time for political games. 

I'm working through my company and the healthcare providers with which I work to find a way to fix the severe problems with this program or replace it. Posting my opinions here does nothing. If it matters at all, I am currently working in the Mental Health field as Director of Technology for a Psychiatric Group. The title is new but I've been working with this group for several years. These days, I deal with the finances, billing, insurance and such matters on a daily basis. My professional assessment is that ACA is a joke. Your mileage may vary.

For my part, I am liberal on most issues but conservative on a few. But the parties are only interested in making the government bigger and more intrusive. My main concern is that we are handing everything over to a government that has shown it is inept at handling pretty much anything. Why on earth would we want them handling our healthcare issues? Government has caused the vast majority of problems by messing with healthcare in the first place.

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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013  Professional General Artist
I'm not trying to "decide" anything here, but to help clear the air and help people see the facts. Again, please read what I wrote (!):

"I hope those of all political stripes that are confused by the swirl of "fact-like-info", truthiness, and spin on the ACA will get a clearer view of what it is and what it is not. But don't take my word for it... or these links. THINK! Do your homework and look at every voice with healthy skepticism tempered by reason."

What part of "make up your own mind, be skeptical, and think" is my trying to decide for people?

Sure we could go 'round on some "facts are relative" angle, but the big ones - absurdities like Palin's "death panels" are clearly in the lies and total misrepresentations. I'm still not sure what this "naive assessment" is that you keep referring to? Care to explain? As for one side lying more than the other, I really think it's self-evident. The Democrats and their boosters can't hold a candle to whoppers like the death panels, the birthers, the "You lie!" moment (in which the accuser was totally wrong), climate change deniers, and a wealth of other absurd statements on various issues. The GOP wasn't always like this. It used to be a separate view based on an interpretation of the facts. But what we've seen arise in the last six years or so seems driven more by ideology and dogma that often flies in the face of facts. That is why so many life-long Republicans (I have friends and family among them) have turned their back on the party and gone independent in the last ten years. The party is shrinking... and there's good reason. To deny that is to close one's eyes to verifiable facts.

I'm flattered that you consider me a "political activist"! WOO-HOO, I've made it!!! It makes it sound like my words my actually hold sway, but I'm just a guy on DA like you... but one who's just frustrated by how twisted up the facts are getting in the recent discussion. Maybe you haven't been seeing the same polls and interviews that I have, but many people are really clueless about the facts surrounding the ACA. Maybe that's just OK with you given your disposition towards the law, so you've been turning a blind eye? Just a guess.

I don't think the ACA the BEST solution to our health care challenges .... but I do think it's decent fix "for now" - and an improvement over what we had before that. I live in Massachusetts where we've been running this type of system for years already, with moderate success. Whether it'll really help control premium costs nationally, we'll see. It's clear that the Right is doing their best to sabotage it by running scare ads to keep younger adults from signing up (www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpprCM…. There's doubting a program will work, and then there's actively working to sabotage its chances of success.

When you say the ACA is a joke, I'm guessing that you're primarily referring to the individual mandate? Or are there other aspects you find inadequate to the task? What approach are you promoting in order to replace it - and what parts would you replace?  How would it more effectively solve the problem? As far as the ACA "handing everything over to the government", what are you specifically referring to? That sounds more like a reaction to the public option approach.

One last note, the trope of "everything the government touches turns to crap" is overused and tenuous at best. "We" love to say that and then say we have the best military on the planet in the next breath. And NASA accomplished the feat of putting a man on the Moon that has yet to be matched decades later. The EPA took rivers that could ignite in flame in the 60s and made them into thriving and swimmable water ways in just a couple of decades (I grew up next to one such cesspool). DARPA gave us many advancements, not the least of which was the seed that grew into the medium we're now communicating through. All the government, my friend. Sure, they've had a fair share of screw-ups, but the blanket statement holds no weight. Libertarians really need to rethink/refine that rallying cry.
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:iconpixel-slinger:
Pixel-Slinger Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Do you really think this is the place for this kind of discussion? If I thought it might get to enough people to amount to more than a mouse fart in a hurricane, I might feel like going into it more fully. 
Personally, I know most people who are talking about this are lying because there aren't two people who actually know what ACA says or what that all means in the real world. The word "affordable" is all they hear. 

Why tell others to read more blogs from people who profess to know something about it? All they do is pander to the fears and prejudices of their followers. That's why I decided to say something in the first place. You are passing on other people's spin. If you want to promote understanding of ACA, why not tell everyone to read the documentation? Oh, because it's thousands of pages of boring and confusing esoterica. That alone should clue everyone in on what kind of law this really is.

Sure the government has had a few successes if you look at them from the right perspective. However, in general, the government is a money sucking waste of space. Trillions of dollars of debt is enough to show the ineptitude and overreaching of this government. Even when it does something we are proud of, it costs too much and is often only done on one hand as misdirection from malfeasance being perpetrated by the other hand. 

And thanks for trying to ridicule me as a Libertarian. You really show your stripes. Sure, you're non-partisan. 
I think you're part of the Asshat party.

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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013  Professional General Artist
LOL! Heh - and you show your stripes as having no regards for facts and reason. You have no interest in trying to resolve an issue.... unless it gets resolved the way you prefer... whatever that is, as you don't seem willing to share any details aside from the usual "Obamacare=Boogyman"? You'd rather attack the messengers rather that get into facts. Fine, I've got no time to waste on a discussion with someone who just whines in generalities. And besides, I now have a party to build! I must find more fellow Asshats and save the world from dogmatic Libertarians that seem driven to fall on their swords for the demented remnants of the once Grand Old Party.

ASSHATS UNITE!
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:iconpixel-slinger:
Pixel-Slinger Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Point proved.
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2013  Professional General Artist
You weren't going to let it be otherwise (in your mind) from the start. That was clear from your language and tone, though I'd hoped otherwise. It's outlooks like yours that are always going to be part of the problem and not the solution.
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(1 Reply)
:iconezri-krios:
Ezri-Krios Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

I'm sad to say that, despite living in the UK, I have been stunned by those in the US who are, as you put perfectly, "... a confused citizenry that is uncertain whether lies, repeated after being dis-proven, must somehow be true."

 

I've also been dismissed as being unable to understand health care as I 'get it for free' (ie via the tax paid NHS). Obviously the person who said this was a Republican. Fwiw it seems to me that the members of the tea-party will take away every scrap of healthcare, food and housing from any citizen who cant pay, up to stepping over your bodies to steal your wallets.

I was shocked when Tort came in, possibly as much as all the people who voted for it then realised how it screwed them. Its actually quite scary what has been allowed to happen in US politics particularly over the last few years. I can't stand our current coalition, not that the other choices are much better. But the right wingers over in the US are bordering on the sociopathic and don't seem to care who knows it anymore as they have been allowed to get away with it for so long.

Hopefully they have gone too far this time and someone measures them up for some nice white jackets with buckles at the back.

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:iconralfmaximus:
RalfMaximus Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Deadly accurate analysis of our factless public discussion. I'm saving this post to show anyone I meet who complains they don't understand what's in ACA.

Fun tactic when talking with friends/coworkers/family: I've taken pains never to use the term "Obamacare". Whenever it pops up I respond, "oh you mean the Affordable Healthcare Act?" and if given the chance mention that "Obamacare" is a term developed by haters to demonize an important block of legislation. 

If somebody says they hate Obamacare I ask them to define what's in the law, and their blank stare is usually enough to start a constructive discussion.

It's surprising how quickly things turn around once they understand the real impact on consumers/businesses vs. what the laws are intended to accomplish. Actually converted a few haters. :)
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:icondeltigar:
Deltigar Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013
The problem I have is the number of my old friends who have been watching Fox News for years. I get quotes from Brietbart and Glen Beck tossed at me all the time. It's painful!
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:iconralfmaximus:
RalfMaximus Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I feel your pain! In order to have a discussion both parties must be willing to listen. 
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:icondeltigar:
Deltigar Featured By Owner Oct 10, 2013
I believe that in order to have agreement, people must work from the same facts. That's why the truth is so important to me. Too many outright lies in politics today.
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:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Writer
I'm just VERY glad that I live in Canada with a civilised public health care system. It's not perfect, but it's a berjillion times better than anything the USA has. And here we don't have to take out a second mortgage if we need medical care.
Reply
:iconabakon:
AbaKon Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Writer
Dr. D.

Want to adopt me? I like hockey and could learn to say "eh?"
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:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2013  Professional Writer
As an example of the Canadian health care system. You can read a Journal of mine from 2012:

drofdemonology.deviantart.com/…
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:iconabakon:
AbaKon Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2013  Professional Writer
See? Republicorp is RIGHT! I mean, you didn't even get to second base with the nurse! According to American media (okay, the porn industry) you ALWAYS get to score with the nurse.

That's how we do it in America.
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:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2013  Professional Writer
:lol:
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:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Writer
:lmao:
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:iconrob-caswell:
Rob-Caswell Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
Ooo! Ooo! Pick me! I make a mean poutine!!!

(or I'm at least willing to try...)
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:icondrofdemonology:
DrOfDemonology Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013  Professional Writer
:XD:
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:icondeltigar:
Deltigar Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2013

Here's another fairly impartial look that I like:

 

www.factcheck.org/2013/09/obam…

 

 

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